Well, he does try! - More UKIP correspondence

I have to admit I did not expect a response to my last e-mail (Previous post) but Mr Chalis did not take things (lying) down

Hello You Again

If you watch the videos properly you'll see that Nigel Farage does not promise: "£350 million a week" to anyone.    He is quite aware that the £350 million goes partly on farmers, universities and structural funds (grants to the region).    If you listen without 'singing pants on fire' to yourself you might hear that he is talking about the "net" figure. the left after the farmers, regions, universities have had their share.  I do realise that concepts such as "gross" and "net" can be difficult, but they are important.. 

UKIP certainly does support spending the balance on hospitals, social care, etc.   But this must come out of the net figure not the gross figure.   I think you know this really.  

I'd better go...  there's a penis enlargement email coming in and I don't want to miss it.  I'm learning lots of new things from you.   I still think you're a tease.

Regards


That, is a pretty good response given that basically he does not have a leg to stand on! He is arguing numbers - well I can play those too!

David,

Thanks for your reply,

You're right - he does not talk about 350 million a week, but he does talk about £10 Billion a year, money that will be freed up to spend on local services, hospitals, schools and GPs

I assume that UKIP will use the proper British Billion not the (immigrant) American Billion?

Just for clarity then - In the video Nigel is promising that with a leave vote the Nett contribution (of 35 Million a day, 10 billion a year) will go to hospitals etc?

You would have thought a commodities broker would know that 35*365 = 12,775 would you not? (it also answers the question about using American Billions)

However, let's not argue over numbers here - there is no point as they all appear to be made up! Let's talk about principles -

When can I expect to see this money released into local services? - this side of hell freezing over perhaps?

As an aside, if hell has frozen over I'll donate the salt to grit the path to the hospital as I obviously won't be needing it to take with your promises!

By the way, I'm an engineer, and I know exactly what the difference is between Nett and Gross -

In terms of natural gas for example, gross calorific value does not include heat to the products of combustion (CO2 and water) while Nett takes these into account and is the available energy..

I also know when money is talked about by politicians it is extremely slippery and it can vanish in an instant - just like the gross and nett contribution to the EU - next thing you will be saying that in fact we did not mean 10 billion, and some clever person in "Bongo bongo land will have turned it into Porsche's and Ray ban Sunglasses" to quote one of your party's MEP.

When it comes to politics, I believe the definition could be

Gross is the promise made in the manifesto

Nett is what we should actually get

Nothing is actually what is actually delivered

Regards,

Mark

No doubt he will tell me Godfrey Bloom was expelled for sexism, but he got away with the Bongo Bongo line.

Just in case you are not aware an American Billion is a Giga (1,000,000,000) while a British Billion is a Tera (1,000,000,000,000)

More UKIP correspondance

I've had a day to think on this and decided to take his advice and indulge in a little teasing.

Hello, me again,

I did a spot of research on your claim that UKIP never promised to spend money that currently goes to the EU on the NHS and guess what?

I'm going to say in parliamentary terms that "you are being economical with the truth" - THROUGH YOUR TEETH!

Try this one for starters

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html

Then this

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/watch-evidence-nigel-farage-said-money-sent-eu-should-go-nhs

Then this

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/footage-shows-nigel-farage-pledging-eu-money-to-nhs-before-he-distanced-himself-from-the-claim-5967094/

Is that perhaps your pants I can smell burning?

Hospitals and GP's are part of the NHS are they not? 

I can always tell when Nigel is spouting rubbish and lies - his lips move!

I think his mother put the nappies on the wrong end to be honest,

I'd also like to challenge Nigel's assertion that MEP's have never done a proper days work in their lives om the EU parliament- thats a bit rich!

What the heck does a commodities broker turned politician know about doing a proper days work for goodness sake?

In the meantime you got ONLY 5,500 e-mails and 275 of them are not messages of support?  I bet at least 1500 of those e-mails were trying to sell you penis enlargement products (something that you really don't need as you are already a bunch of a word that is not terribly polite but starts with a D and ends with icks)

Having seen through your blandishments on funding, I am stockpiling salt so that I can take your further promises such as sovereignty, immegration, a better life with UKIP,  with a rather large pinch of good old sodium chloride.

Tell mr Farage from me to go and get a proper job that actually will make Britain better - A road sweeper springs to mind, perhaps a cleaner at a hospital, or a plumber? Maybe a care home worker and take a job away from an immigrant who can return in friendship and gratitude to Eastern Europe?

By the way, there is an element of teasing this time, just so you know what it looks like. Though I stand by what I say.

I am still very serious that your party is hypocritical taking and keeping seats in the European parliament .

 

Unsincerely,

Mark,

Perhaps I should have put insincerely at the end? I don't know!

these guys are just too easy.

I think I might save sour grapes for if the bill to revoke the 1972 European communities act is struggling through parliament - Apparently it needs an act of Parliament to invoke this Article 50 thing and the majority of MPS are Pro remain..... Oh it's going to be fun!

Correspondance with UKIP

I was ashamed at the behaviour of the UKIP leader in the EU parliament, I rather echo Jean-Claude Junker "Why are you even here?"
So I wrote to UKIP HQ demanding the resignation of the UKIP members from the European Parliament - after all they are members of a body they don't feel any allegiance to and campaign to abolish.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have just read about your party leader's exchanges in the EU parliament with considerable disgust and distain.

I wonder if your party, leader, and elected officials can plumb further depths in hypocrisy?

I almost dare not ask - just in case you think you can!

Your party has one agenda to take the UK out of the EU - well done, with the help of 37% of the voters in the country.

But while we wait in vain for ANY of the promises made by the leave campaigns to be fulfilled, I demand the immediate resignation from the European parliament of Nigel Farage and ALL UKIP MEP's - at least they have the opportunity to save us SOME money!

At the very least you should have refused to take your seats at an institution that you don't believe in following the election.

Taking your seats (and funding, salaries and expenses) from Europe is deeply hypocritical and just what we should not tolerate from our elected representatives.

I mean even Sinn Fein don't take the seats of their MP's at Westminster because they don't pledge allegiance to the queen.

While I hate to put Nigel Farage and Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness on the same moral plain - it appears that Adams and McGuiness have the moral high ground!

I have also copied my local MP on this in the hope that he can raise the issue in the house  of commons and get UKIP out of Europe allowing less hypocritical, more representative people to negotiate honestly and fairly the terms of our regrettable departure.

I won't end by any kind of warm feelings as I have none towards you 
Sincerely,

I got this - dare I call it "Twaddle" in reply? Yes I think I do on reflection - I've left it in his nice, easy to read, child friendly font!

Dear Mark Newnham

Thank you very much for getting in touch.  Please excuse the brevity of this reply but as you can imagine we are snowed under with messages of support.

I think the problem with some commentators is that they haven't been following this over the years.  For at least the last decade the EU has insulted, derided and treated with contempt all warnings from UKIP about what would happen.  Now it has happened, and it is quite fine for Nigel to tell them that.   The trouble is that they don't like hearing the truth. 

It's been a long hard slog to get to this Referendum, and finally the cell door has opened and freedom now beckons.  Some commentators have said that a Leave vote means UKIP can disband, job done, but that is not the case.   

There will not be a "second Referendum" despite whatever Michael Heseltine might wish.  The petition calling for one has already been discredited and UKIP has no intention of getting involved with this matter.  It is simply a case of bad losers not accepting a democratic result...  exactly the sort of behaviour exhibited by the EU.

As for "economic turmoil" mentioned by some, the (over valued) pound is now up against the euro and the stock market is rising, though of course it might fall again.  That's what stock markets do.  It is reasonable to assume that part of the financial volatility might possibly be caused by the fact that the Prime Minister has just resigned, the Chancellor has been in a foxhole for three days, the Leader of Her Majesty's Official Opposition is engulfed in civil war with his own MPs, and thirty two (?) Shadow Ministers and Cabinet Ministers have just walked out?  

We should now look to the future.  Britain might have voted to Leave the EU but it's not over yet.  The Government must now set in motion the deal for leaving the EU in an amicable friendly way, and UKIP is certainly needed to hold their feet to the fire and ensure that there is no back-sliding. We will continue to attend the Chamber and keep at them.  And if that means reclaiming just a tiny, tiny fraction of the untold £-billions we have shovelled into their coffers over the years, then we make absolutely no apology for that.   The EU is slipperier than a buttered piglet, and we do not trust them one little bit.  They will do their best to put a spanner in the works of Brexit and whoever is handling the UK negotiations needs to be aware of that.

Regards
David Challice

UKIP Head Office

To which I replied

Nice try, but it does not answer my demand that you IMMEDIATELY WITHDRAW ALL UKIP MEP from the EU parliament -  that you NEVER agreed with, nor did you EVER treat amicably or politely.

I'm glad that you THINK these are messages of support - please feel free to treat mine as a message of DEFIANCE

Your party is a worse bunch of hypocrites than any other party and frankly make me ashamed to be British.

Who better to "negotiate amicably" with " A buttered piglet" than an orange coloured Troll by the name of Farage?

I'm hoping that when we choose our negotiators they are more friendly and amicable than the leader of your party!

It is sentiments like yours that are going to make things far, far worse for ordinary working people who just want to get on with their lives in a friendly and constructive community of nations.

I'm PROUD to be EUROPEAN BRITISH.

I am not proud of many of my country who swallowed your LIES - after all it seems that we WONT regain sovereignty, we WONT get control of all immigration and we WONT spend an extra £350 Million a week on the NHS.

The result of this referendum has been to really annoy the more than 16 MILLION British people who WANT to STAY IN THE EU.

Don't think that you are by any means representative of the population of the UK

Now, please go ahead and pull your MEP's from the EU parliament and stop pouring oil on the troubled fires that you have caused in the EU!

Mark

Apparently this was just teasing - can you believe the arrogance? Actually they are politicians - I can!

Dear Mark

Thank you for your undoubted support, and I know you are merely teasing.

For the reasons I gave earlier, UKIP will certainly not be withdrawing its MEPs, but we will be regaining sovereignty, and we will be getting control over immigration.

Just for the record, UKIP has never promised £350 million per week extra for the NHS.  You'll have to take up that with Boris Johnson's Vote Leave group, I'm afraid.  

As UKIP has always made crystal clear, the £350 million includes money spent on farmers and on British universities, but when we do have that "independence dividend" we certainly will be pouring many £-millions into the NHS and into Social Care  (there's no point sorting out the hospitals if there's nowhere we can discharge vulnerable patients... otherwise we'll just end up with them bed-blocking).

Now you must excuse me.   We have received 5,500 emails (and counting) since Friday, and 99% of them are not teasing.  They are saying "Well done UKIP.  Thank God somebody is standing up for Britain"    So I'd better get back to them.

Regards

I honestly cannot believe that only 50 emails to UKIP are not messages of support - if they already support them why write? I honestly cannot believe that 4950 e-mails (and counting apparently) are positive!

I'm afraid I don't take patronising very well

I am not teasing. I am entirely serious.
Your party is a bunch of moronic hypocrites, led by a buffoon married to a immigrant.

This is not, repeat not, an indication of support.
I don't believe in UKIP, what you preach, stand for, or advocate.
I'd rather the country run by Belgians than by your lot

Kindly take the remaining chance to bog off to Istanbul to tell them not to come here, and let sensible people sort out the fine mess Boris and Nigel have gotten us into..

I'm ashamed of my government

I just read on the BBC news website that our "esteemed" home secretary has made a speech.
The fact that I am in the 70% of the country who did not vote for them, unfortunately does not matter.

Nothing new about that - the job of home secretary appears to be one of opening their mouths and using the knee jerk reaction to assist in changing feet!

Today Theresa May has made it clear that free movement of people in the EU is not for people to head to the UK to look for work or get health treatment - in other words you can only come to the UK if you are "worthy".

This is, to my thinking, abhorrent - it is the kind of policy that turned away (and continues to turn away) refugees escaping oppressive regimes. How many innocent valuable lives have been shut out of our country in the last 100 years?

Our government and media again seem to have confused legal and free movement from other countries in the EU, innocent people seeking refuge from cruel and oppressive governments and those coming to Europe seeking a better way of life.

The level of immigration is higher than the government would like - hence the Theresa May foot shuffle as she changes which foot is in her mouth.

What is the point of our being in the EU if we decide to pick and choose what we want to be part of - Sometimes I think that Napoleon had us pegged when he said that we were a nation of shopkeepers.

David Cameron (who I still have not forgiven for calling what I do at work "pointy head") who is in charge of what I call the "Taurus excreta" department said that he wanted the UK to be a "buccaneering" trading nation.

Shows what a classical private education at the best schools can accomplish - Buccaneer is another word for pirate or thief. Not really the best description for British industry.

Having said that I guess daylight robbery does more or less count about our banking sector!

I'm off in disgust to listen to Monty Pythons Accountant sea song

It's fun to charter an accountant,
And sail the wide accountan-cy.
To find, explore the funds offshore,
And skirt the shoals of bankruptcy.
It can be manly in insurance.
We'll up your premium semi-anually.
It's all tax-deductible,
We're fairly incorruptible.
We're sailing on the wide accountan-cy.

The people have spoken - but, as usual the politicians hear what they want to hear!

Yesterday there was a general election in the UK and this morning I was able to hear about 10 seconds of the news before I gave up in despair and turned the news off!

All the results are now in and the new parliament looks like this - Tory with a side order of SNP.

On a gain of 1.4% of the votes the conservatives gain 21 extra seats, the Labour vote went up 3.6% and they got just 15 extra seats. Maths is difficult.

On 41% of the total votes cast in England (I'll deal with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in a bit) the Conservatives got 319 out of 533 seats - HOW DOES THIS MATHS WORK?

For the UK it is even worse - 36.9% of people voted conservative - less than 4 people in 10! Yet he has a "democratic mandate" from the people which includes all of us - we voted for him so we got him..............
My constituency is worse - our MP was elected by 31.6% of the voters


If we had Proportional Representation (PR) here the house would look quite different.

Under PR we would in England have -
Conservative - 219 seats
Labour           - 169 seats
Lib dems       - 44 seats
UKIP             - 73 seats
Green            - 22 seats
Others           - 5 seats (independents mostly)

However there is a number that made their statement by Not Voting AT ALL  - these people do not want a government enough to turn out. Or just don't care - so lets give their vote to nobody at all - if they cannot be bothered to vote, nobody should be elected - there were 3 MILLION more people DID NOT VOTE than voted Conservative - 3 MILLION.
Over 1 person in 3 did not vote who could have voted.

The new English parliament looks like this
Conservative - 144 seats
Labour           - 111 seats
Lib dems       - 29 seats
UKIP             - 48 seats
Green            - 15 seats
Others           - 3 seats (independents mostly)
Empty           - 183 seats (Saving 67060 per seat so - £12,271,980 saved per year = ~£70 million by the time pay rises are taken into account in the term of the parliament!)

Scotland has 56 SNP (50% of the vote), 1 Labour (24.3%), 1 Conservative (14.9%), and 1 Liberal MP (7.5%) 

Under PR it looks like this in Scotland - 

SNP         - 35 seats

Labour     - 17 seats

Conservative - 9 seats

Liberals    - 5 seats

UKIP        - 1 seat

Green       - 1 seat

Others  - none

Taking into account the 1.62 Million people who did not vote we get

SNP         - 21 seats

Labour     - 10 seats

Conservative - 6 seats

Liberals    - 3 seats

UKIP        - 1 seat

Green       - 1 seat

Others  - none

Empty -  17 seats (1.14 million pounds saved)

Wales has 40 seats and 25 Labour (36.9% of the vote) 11 Tories (27.2%) Plaid Cymru (12.1%) 1 Lib dem (6.5%) no UKIP(13.6%) and no others

Under PR we get in Wales

Labour           - 15 Seats

Conservative - 11 Seats

Plaid Cymru  - 5 seats

Lib Dem        - 3 seats

UKIP             - 5 seats

Green            - 1 seat

Others           - 0 seats

Taking the 785909 people who did not vote into account we get

Labour           - 10 Seats

Conservative - 7 Seats

Plaid Cymru  - 3 seats

Lib Dem        - 2 seats

UKIP             - 4 seats

Green            - 1 seat

Others           - 0 seats

Empty           - 14 seats (£938840 saving per year)

Northern Ireland has 18 seats and an electorate of 1,236,683 

DUP                               - 5 seats (Actual 8)

Sinn Fein                       - 4 seats  (Actual 4)

SDLP                             - 3 seats (Actual 3)

UUP                               - 3 seats (Actual 2)

Alliance party                - 2 seats (actual 0)

The others got 1 seat for real and get 1 seat under PR

But lets take the whopping 41.9% who did not vote at all

DUP               - 3 seats

Sinn Fein         - 3 seats

UUP               - 2 seats

Alliance          - 1 seat

Everybody else none with 8 empty seats (Saving us a cool £536480 a year in salaries)

For the UK a a whole we get the following taking no votes and PR

Unfilled - 223 seats saving £74771900 over a 5 year term

Conservative - 159 seats

Labour - 131 seats

UKIP - 54 seats

Liberals - 34 seats

SNP 20 seats

Green 16 seats

DUP and Plaid - 3 seats each

Sinn Fein and others - 2 seats each

SDLP, Alliance party and TUSC - 1 seat each

Is the UK turning into a rotten borough?

Today's news headline on the BBC website ia "Leaders set out rival 'choices'"

What choice do we actually have here? It makes me think that we seriously need to examine our electoral system as I fear that we are rapidly turning into a rotten borough, or at least a modern version of one.

Historically a rotten borough was a throwback to when a constituency had a royal charter to elect members of parliament, these were often controlled by the mp or landowner with people given little or no choice on who they elected.

Rotten or pocket boroughs were officially abolished in an electoral reform act in 1832.

In this election we had various party leader debates and all the parties talk about "Choices" we are told that to get a government of a particular stripe we have to vote for that party.
In our system over 50% of the votes were wasted in the last election - over 64% in my constituency were wasted. - votes posted for losing candidates and no votes

I am seriously annoyed that the media and politicians have perpetuated the myth that we have a democratically elected government - in truth who are we electing?

I get to vote for 1 person to become the mp for this constituency - that person represents a party (I have no choice in that - there are no independent candidates) - a vote for a candidate is seen as a vote for the party of the winning candidate (regardless of who I actually voted for)
As a voter I have no say about who the parties nominate for election, nor do I have a say in the policies or beliefs of the parties, nor do I have a say in the leader of that party.

We do not vote for the party leader - nor do we elect a government.

Given the major disconnect between who we actually vote for and the reality I think that it is time for electoral reform .

The Government will say that we had a referendum on electoral reform and the vote was in favour of the first past the post system, but they don't listen to the question they actually asked which was would you like to change the existing electoral system to the alternative vote? - this was a simple yes or no question with a very specific yes answer - this is not the same as electoral reform.

In actual fact the party leader with the greatest number of seats in the house sets up a meeting with an unelected monarch who invites them to form a government.
If there is a coalition we get no say in that either - it seems to me that things have been stitched up.
the politicians and those in power.

Life will not change significantly no matter who is in Government - in fact things stay pretty much the same - so vote for choice or live in a rotten borough where democratic power is kept well away from the people and in the hands of parties who have their own agendas and an unelected octogenarian.

Hey in Britain we can do both.


In actual fact I do, as a member of a trade union I am allowed to vote in Labour party elections, but I abstain from voting as I have no particular affinity with or wish to be a member of any political party. I also do not pay the political levy on the union membership.

The weekend before an election

Unless you have been living under a stone for the last several months there is a general election here on Thursday (7th May)

I, for one, have had more than enough of the rhetoric and attempts to score hollow points victories.

I'm going to give you my honest opinion here

I've checked the wording on my polling card and guess what - all these leader debates, party political broadcasts, endless tedious interviews on the news, TV and radio were all to divert the attention from the question you are actually asking me.

In the election I am being asked to elect a candidate to be a member of parliament.

That is right I am voting for a PERSON, I am not voting for the prime minister, the government, or even for a party - I am electing a person to become a member of parliament

I am fed up, sick and tired, of politicians making up answers for me to questions that they have not asked.

The way the system works is amazingly good at NOT listening to the country.
Our next Prime minister will be the leader of the party that gets the highest number of seats in the house of commons - not the party with the highest number of votes, nor even the one best able to run the country.

The next guy who takes up residence at No 10 Downing street will not have been elected by the population, nor does he have a democratic mandate - an octogenarian monarch will actually invite him to form a government.

The leader (elected by his party members) will then unilaterally appoint the cabinet and the new (unvoted for) cabinet.

Somehow my vote for a local MP who is a person is somehow read into this one cross on a piece of paper into a vote for a party (that I may not have voted for), everything that the party stands for and every crazy idea that they will come up with in the next 5 years until they pretend to take an interest again in what we want.

I am also worried about how our process has evolved from - in the words of the US constitution
"Government of the people, by the people and for the people"
To "Government of the economy, by the elite, for the bankers"

I did find it interesting to notice when a colleague started talking about listening to customers requirements and meeting his needs and requirements our prime minister's eyes glazed over and within a couple of seconds he had lost interest and dismissed us as "pointy heads" as though the concept of listening to customers and doing what they want is alien to him?